Agricultural Scientists who think beyond the field

I think that has been a shift historically not only here in Australia, but around the world. Agriculture is the industry that is less fast in adopting technology. So, it takes a while. Now the shift in how we're applying technology in agriculture is attracting more young people to stay on the farms and the younger people are getting interested in agriculture - due to technology.

ALI MOORE: Hello, my name is Ali Moore and welcome to a University of Melbourne podcast on the brave new world of work - a series about the future and the skills and the outlook needed to make the most of it.

Today, agricultural scientists who think beyond the field. What does the rise of technology mean for the future of agriculture in Australia and our vineyards? To explore, not just the impact on wine, but to look across the industry, I'm joined by Dr. Sigfredo Fuentes, a Fellow in Digital Agriculture, food and wine at the University of Melbourne and Hayley Purbrick, who owns Big Sky Ideas consultancy and is also one of Purbrick's of Tahbilk Wineries, where she is the Environmental Manager.

Welcome to both of you. Let's get straight to the heart of the topic. Innovation in agriculture. So, in essence, the farmer could be sitting in Melbourne, the farm could be a thousand miles away and the sensors will work out when more water is needed, the irrigation system will be switched on, the irrigators will be moved, and it will all happen while the farmers are having a nice cup of coffee somewhere a thousand miles away.

SIGFREDO FUENTES - Yeah, that is the idea. So, you have all the sensors and they're working with all the apparatus-like valves, and putting in irrigation that is going to meet the end requirements and basically, the ideal situation will be an unmanned farm.

ALI MOORE - Hayley, does this sound like the stuff dreams are made of?

HAYLEY PURBRICK: It's so interesting, because for me, it doesn't at all. Not because it's technology but, so technology needs to be proofed, so you need ground truthing. So, the way we look at it is, we will implement as much technology as we can, but it's got to enhance the decision-making capacity of the person who, you know, is the farmer or the business owner, the viticulturalist.

The cost and the reliability can't outweigh the implementation itself. So, to me it's not ideal. Only because the reason I got into agriculture was because I love the hands-on element of being outdoors, living in a regional area. The community element that comes with that is so necessary. Sitting in an office looking at data. To me, that's definitely not where I would like to be.

ALI MOORE - But is there a perhaps a mid-way here that it's not that you can be a thousand miles away. It's more that you have all this extraordinary help, information that will help you build a better product in the end. Is that it?

HAYLEY PURBRICK - Yeah, I guess. The whole idea of precision agriculture and ag technology is about the decision making. So, it's about making that decision, making it more precise, so you can make a better call on what you should do - and if it can't do that, then you're not going to implement the technology.

So, at the moment the major challenges for us, as I guess viticulturalists, or winemakers, is that we can tell by walking into a vineyard if it's water stressed. So, the technology needs to be able to greater enhance our precision around where the water stress is, so that we're making better decisions. And it might be helping us with the way that we turn our irrigation on and off, because that is a major expense for us. Putting water onto the property.

So, I just get really, I don't know. I love technology, but we've got this challenge because predominantly people want to live in cities. They don't want to live in regional areas. So, sometimes I feel like a lot of the drive behind technology is to cater for people who aren't necessarily in the industry at the moment, but possibly people who might be in the industry in the future.

ALI MOORE - Well, let's ask Sigfredo that. I mean is it skill set? Is it a sort of a means in itself? And the cost benefit analysis has to be the bottom line, doesn't it?

SIGFREDO FUENTES - Yes, I think that I understand where people come from. That they say with technology, you need to put the brakes a little bit. But, I think there has been a shift in the sense of the adoption of technology. But historically not only here in Australia but around the world, agriculture is an industry that is less fast in adopting technology. So, it takes a while.

Fifteen years, twenty-five years ago, they were studying other things, like for example satellite information. This still caused imprecision. So, then the UAV (unmanned aerial vehicle) came and it was perfect for the resolution that, for example, growers need.

Now this shift, that I think started happening in America three years ago, and is happening now in Australia, is that younger people is getting interested in agriculture due to technology. How we're applying technology in agriculture is attracting more young people to stay in the farms and apply - We've been developing, for example, apps that take down plant water status or stress levels or vino controlling in canopies - so you just snap a picture. It gives you a lot of parameters and then you can make decisions.

ALI MOORE - So, in some ways, it makes the job more challenging, more interesting, because you've got more to work with?

SIGFREDO FUENTES - Yeah yeah.

HAYLEY PURBRICK - Well I think that is where it is so interesting. So, I would see myself as the young person - I'm 33. So, I don't know if that's young or old?

ALI MOORE - Nah, I reckon that counts!

HAYLEY PURBIRCK - But the interesting part of technology I guess, when you look at agriculture, it is a really unique industry. You can grow, make, sell, and then you can service that industry as well. So, with technology, I think a lot of it is figuring out which part of the process within agriculture are you servicing. And as a university, what sort of skills are we creating?

So, what sort of jobs are we putting people into? It makes complete sense to me that younger people are interested in ag tech and complete sense that they would like to live in a city. So, there is a growing agricultural service industry and I think universities have a huge part to play in that. What I'm concerned about, I guess, as someone who lives in a regional area running an agricultural business, is we also need people who can grow. So, they might be soil science background, so your farmer - who has a great understanding of biology, chemistry, sunlight, water application - all those fundamentals which is more almost climate science: understanding how things grow and how to get the best yields. And I would like them to come back to the country and to be trained in the country and to actually - we kind of need holistic way to look at how tech is applied.

ALI MOORE - So, how do how do universities produce the right people? So, people who are able to do all those things that you just talked about whether it's, you know, soil, whether it's climate, whatever the specialty is. But, they can pursue innovation and they can draw in all that's available. It doesn't mean they don't go back to the farm, but they can use every tool that's on the table. How do universities do that?

HAYLEY PURBRICK - I don't know what you think Sig. But from my perspective, it is looking at it as a holistic system. And maybe the universities. I mean, I don't know a lot of people who are actually on the farm, who have been to university. They might have gone to an agricultural college that is specifically around more that practical fixing machinery. A completely different skill set.

You know we want the same behaviours, as in thinking outside the square, proactive, self-motivated. But I think university say with a technical college fits really well in the whole cycle of being able to get all of the right skills into a future employee to go back to the farm.

SIGFREDO FUENTES - In that sense we have our newly formed Bachelor of Agriculture Sciences that has been in since last year. It's increased enrolments by 25 percent. So, that is telling you that the curriculum that we put together is, I think, is according to the times of incorporating technology. And also integrating all the farm experience, because most of the Bachelor is based in Dookie.

ALI MOORE - So, it's got a lot of practical work, as well as theory.

SIGFREDO FUENTES - Yeah, and then we incorporate all the technological basics. Legal knowledge, remote sensing, and all the new stuff that we're developing - not only research, but we are doing this in practical situations as well.

We're working really closely with companies, so we apply all the UAV technology to solve problems for the growers. We don't go with pre-determined ideas. So, we go to the growers and say "what is your main problem? What do you want to solve first?" And it's all about efficiencies.

There are companies who made the mistake that in 2015, which was the year of the drone or the year of the UAV. And companies started to sprout up everywhere offering services and they were mainly engineers. Nothing against engineers, actually I am an engineer. But they have no knowledge of plant physiology, soils, etc. So, they were saying - we can detect differences and they can be related to pests, disease, water status, stress or whatever. But, they didn't know the plants and that they differ from soil to soil or from environment to environment etc. So, what they promised was too much and then they didn't deliver. And last year, there were 350 companies that were providing these services and they went bankrupt.

And that tells the grower who had the experience with these companies, that "we try UAV and they don't work." So, that is something that we need to reverse.

And the main thing is you need to go to the grower and ask what are the questions. A company can't really go out and say - we are going to increase your yields, we are going to increase your outputs. Because, probably sometimes, the growers - they don't want that. I mean, viticulturalists or wine producers - they want to maintain their style. And that doesn't mean increasing yields or increasing quality. It's their style. And for that you need to manage variability within the farm - and that is what technology can do. Because doing it by eye is not going to happen.

HAYLEY PURBRICK - I can see in the future that with GPS technology, with sensing. All the technology that's coming, there will come a point where the service industries no longer are reliable or cost effective and the farm will want to hire those skills internally, because that cost benefit relationship won't weigh up anymore.

So, it'll shift the sort of technical farm hand I guess - someone that you have on the ground is going to look very different with what they can fix and apply themselves to. But we're kind of in this transition phase, where the technology and the research in technology is there, but the support mechanisms haven't necessarily been developed - particularly in viticulture.

Whereas for broadacre irrigation, with our GPS system, we could call up anybody anytime and they could come in and fix our GPS. But in the Gambia, where we are only three wineries and we're the biggest winery in that region with 200 hectares. We don't have anybody in our region who could support fixing a drone if something went wrong. And that is a challenge, if the technology is going to be applied.

ALI MOORE - And if we go back to that question around - I guess - the education in a way. Do you think that there's enough collaboration between universities and business and universities and farms, universities and wineries, and is enough of that mix in the education phase?

HAYLEY PURBRICK - It's definitely something that is becoming more of a focus I think. And when I was looking at some of the questions today, I was thinking - what is the role of universities in the future and what does that look like?

And I think that collaboration between industry and research is going to become closer and closer. So, those barriers are going to be broken down a lot more. When I was an agricultural student, I literally knew nobody in the industry. It was not something that the university was focused on doing, so when you finished your degree, you were kind of thrown out into the wild.

Whereas I feel like the universities are doing a lot more work in building those networks and relationships for students before they leave, so that they have more options and pathways to work, which I think is really important.

SIGFREDO FUENTES - In the case of viticulture specifically, I think a big role is played by Wine Australia. So, there is a link between the universities or the research institutions, and the growers, because Wine Australia gives them money that they take from the growers. So, it's a levy from their profits every year that goes for research and that is what we apply for.

We have a few projects already done with Wine Australia. One of those was developing the app that I mentioned for canopy management and irrigation scheduling. And actually, that went out live last year and for free.
The main thing is most of the downloads are from America and Japan, not in Australia, and Australia paid for that research. So, I think Wine Australia needs to put more marketing strategies to try and involve more growers, or otherwise the benefits are going to be taken by somebody else.

ALI MOORE - Sigfredo, with the research that you do, you obviously, you do collaborate quite a lot within the university?

SIGFREDO FUENTES - Yeah. We're collaborating a lot with the engineering department and computer sciences. Mainly because they came to us actually. We didn't have to go to them, as many students need to do projects ideas for their degrees - Masters or undergrad. And then, they want to do stuff that they apply in real situations.

So, for example, we were talking before. In computer science, you can do a project for a thesis of a camera system looking in a ball in a table and then follow the ball - well, what's the point? You can do it. It works, but then I say, "well imagine the red ball is an apple. And then you can actually recognise that apple and count it. So that is yield estimation - with image analysis." And they say, "well, I'm interested in that."

So, it's a different approach for computer science and engineering. They're working really closely together with us, not only in agriculture, but in animal sciences as well. So, this same technology that we use in the remote sensing platforms like UAV, we are also using it in the cattle dairy industry to assess stress levels on animals and then how that relates to the quality of the produce like either milk, meat etc. Animal welfare as well.

ALI MOORE - Hayley you said before, I mean, you made the really valid point that there'd be no one to fix a drone in your neck of the woods if you had one of them. But what technology do you use?

HAYLEY PURBRICK - You know, on our property, we actually use no technology on the vineyard itself.

ALI MOORE - Not even moisture? Nothing?

HAYLEY PURBRICK - Nothing at the moment. Nothing. So, we are 100 percent, so drip irrigation. We have explored implementing so much different technology and that cost benefit argument has not been able to convince us that it's worth investing in that technology.

So, on the vineyard itself, so our winery. We do the whole process - make, grow, sell. We do the whole lot. So, we've invested in a lot of technology around the retail space - in selling our product in, developing our product, processes and systems. Through the middle they're using a lot of technology there, but in the actual growing - we have zero at the moment.

ALI MOORE - Sigfredo, is that one of the reasons that we have slow uptake with technology in this country? Because they just can't make the numbers stack up?

SIGFREDO FUENTES - You know there's a cost benefit and I think for drone technology, it is too expensive at the moment. The main thing is it's the same cost for one hectare and for 2,000 hectares. So, at the end I think it's viable according to the size of the farm that you're trying to do in this study. I know for a farm of 45 hectares, it's probably not going to be as cost-effective. But, we're dealing with farms of 2,000 hectares. And then you can do it in one day.

HAYLEY PURBRICK - Yeah. I must say I don't know these industry facts. So, we're 200 hectares - we're a medium sized player in the industry. How many farms or vineyards are over that size? Say 200 hectares and above?

SIGFREDO FUENTES - I don't have the figure. Yeah, I think you will be like a medium or a medium size.

ALI MOORE - But it does. It is interesting Hayley, that you say that although it doesn't work, you know, it doesn't stack up for you. You've looked at it. You're well aware of it. You clearly understand how important innovation is. Can you see a day where the numbers will switch?

HAYLEY PURBRICK - I can see a day when the numbers will turn. It all depends on the cost. So, if there's broader adoption and somebody can get it into a place where the costs can come down. Absolutely. And then the other thing is reliability. So, we need to have support around us to be able to manage it. If something goes wrong. We also need reliable Internet.

At the moment, on our property, we're an hour and a half out of Melbourne. We don't have reliable Internet, so that's something that we're trying to fix up. If we can't wifi our systems across, to actually get the data around, then it's useless data as well.

ALI MOORE - So there's one other issue that we haven't covered and that is of course that we're collecting huge amounts of data. If you do choose to use this technology, how easy is it to know what to do with it?

SIGFREDO FUENTES - Yeah, that's a different question as well. And the companies that I mentioned before, they went bankrupt and they didn't know how to how to deal with it. At the moment, we have different projects to try and interpret data for different applications, so one of them is obviously the first question, or the first priority for growers, is water use efficiency and increasing water use efficiency.

The second one is fertilizer efficiency. The third one is canopy management. In all the surveys, we do with the growers, these are all exactly the same. And then in the end there's labour costs and how to improve that. Now we're working in different algorithms to try to interpret the data and do our recommendations in that sense.

We working on one now that is working really well and actually we're applying it in China - to detect smoke contamination in grapevines. So, at the moment when there is a bushfire, there is smoke contamination. The growers, they don't know to which extent the contamination has been in their farms. So, for example they, they don't do anything. They just mix the whole thing and it contaminates the whole production basically.

So, now we're working on trying to map the contamination, so the growers can do differential harvest and separate the contaminated from the uncontaminated fruit.

ALI MOORE - And that's an easy thing to do from the point of view of getting the data?

SIGFREDO FUENTES - Yes. And you can do it in one day. So that is one of the demonstrations. So, for canopy management, the app for example - that technology can serve growers to take decisions on how to manage the canopy according to specific outputs. For example, if your sugar levels are - You can take a picture. This is in planning for three more years. You take a picture of your canopy from that particular plant. You're going to know the acidity of the sugar, etc, projected to harvest.

If you don't like it you do canopy management, you can take another picture and see where you are in real time, instead of waiting to see if you want more sugar, less sugar, or less alcohol. Then you can modify the canopy and it will give you the change instantaneously. So, that is one of the ideas that we're working on.

ALI MOORE - There are endless possibilities in that. Let's finish sort of vaguely back where we started which was not so much what the smart farm or even the smart winery is going to look like in the future. But more the role of the agricultural scientist. I mean it's as we talked about earlier, it's a completely different skill set and they are so valuable. The people who are able to think laterally and pull in all the innovations around them.

HAYLEY PURBRICK - I don't know if I have a comment on that. I'm just trying to think. Sig, do you have something to say on that note?

SIGRFEDO FUENTES - Yeah. I think as you say for example the agricultural scientist needs to be more holistic. In the sense of, they need to know all the basics about plant physiology and soil so soil physics, agronomy etc. But, also how the technology can improve decision making and how we can measure all those factors. Because we know from the basics how the plant reacts according to different environments etc. But if we have measures in real time, we can take decisions in real time and that's what we're trying to do with the new Bachelor of Agricultural Sciences. We're trying to incorporate that knowledge into future Agronomists.

And one of the majors that we're trying to implement next year is a major in viticulture and egronomy. So, it's going to be the first degree in Australia that they prepare agronomists with a major in viticulture. All the other university that work in them - they prepare the viticulturalists or egronomists, but they don't have the broad knowledge of agriculture or plants. If you tell them how the rice work, they tell you they didn't study that.

ALI MOORE - Gee Hayley, there's a new workforce for you.

HAYLEY PURBRICK - Well, I've got to say after this conversation, I'm going to speak to somebody exactly about that - about getting students onto our property to be able to share their knowledge with our staff.

Because you know in a regional area, nine times out of ten, the people who want to live there are the people who've grown up there and they don't necessarily have a university qualification and have no interest in coming to the city. So, for us our reliable stable workforce are regional people who have been there forever and want to live there. So, if we can bring students in to help complement their skills and build their knowledge in that way. Then for us that's the end game and maybe attract some students to come and work, that would be great too

ALI MOORE: The perfect collaboration. Thank you to both of you for your insights this afternoon. It's much appreciated.

BOTH: Thank you.

ALI MOORE - You've been listening to a University of Melbourne discussion between Dr. Sigfredo Fuentes, Hayley Purbrick and me, Ali Moore.

In the changing world of work, the Melbourne Model is preparing students for the future beyond their degree. To find out more, visit unimelb.edu.au and look for Melbourne talent.